Ward Churchill, harsh and scolding, at a forum on Conscientious Objection and resistance to military recruiters in Portland, Oregon Friday:
For those of you who do, as a matter of principle, oppose war in any form, the idea of supporting a conscientious objector who's already been inducted [and] in his combat service in Iraq might have a certain appeal.
But let me ask you this: Would you render the same support to someone who hadn't conscientiously objected, but rather instead rolled a grenade under their line officer in order to neutralize the combat capacity of their unit?
After discussing the effectiveness of fragging officers in Vietnam, Churchill says (26:48):
You cannot maintain a military projection of force in the field when your own troops are taking out the line officers who are directing them in combat. It is as simple as that. Conscientious objection removes a given piece of the cannon fodder from the fray; fragging an officer has a much more impactful effect.
Later, during the Q&A (:1:13:31):
Questioner: I think it's important when you're getting into a discussion of violence and appropriate violence and self-defense, of starting to look at what you're trying to build there, what you're trying to createfor example, fragging an officer, which you were talking about before, at the beginning of your talk, the sort of trauma that that inflicts on that officer's family back home is I feel like an important thing to take into account when you try to think about what your action is trying to accomplish in the first place. I really feel like I can articulate [my question] properly, but that's the general direction I'm heading with it.
Churchill: How do you feel about Adolf Eichmann's family?
(You can listen to the stream here, download the MP3 at IndyTorrents, or we have it available for download here on PB. Determine for yourself whether we've taken the above quotes out of context or the quotes are part-and-parcel of what Churchill believes is truly necessary to oppose the war in Iraq (his speech picks up at 21:36. Note: This recording is missing his prefatory remarks.)
Important Note: You can read all about how WorldNetDaily clumsily plagiarized the above story (as well as our preceding "grammar-checker" satire) here.
Note: We've transcribed a larger portion of Churchill's remarks to provide more context for the first two quotes noted above. You can now read those quotes in context here.
Opposing a draft that doesn't exist. The perfect cause for a fraud like Ward.
Robin Roberts () (URL) - 26 June '05 - 17:12
Once again, he skirts the edges of the letter of the law, while violating its spirit. If you don't clearly hear a call to violence here, you're not paying attention.
What a vile man.
Dianna () - 26 June '05 - 17:31
Dianna sums up Ward's MO (and character) well. It's what he's done for years, and it's finally made him famous. Why would he quit now?
jgm () (URL) - 26 June '05 - 23:26
I'm working on a second essay about Churchill. We'll see what Jim thinks, and if it belongs here. I hope you'll check back.
Dianna () - 26 June '05 - 23:28
Ward Churchill is a seriously demented individual.
See related story:
By The Company He Keeps: Understanding Warch Churchill
Story here: http://www.californiaconservative.org/?p=64
California Conservative () (URL) - 27 June '05 - 10:53
I wonder how Mr. Churchill would react if some speaker in a public forum said something like, "But let me ask you this: Would you render the same support to someone who hadn't vocally objected, but rather instead phoned in a bomb threat at a gathering where Ward Churchill was speaking in order to neutralize the propaganda effectiveness of the event?"
Note that "bomb threat" is not equivalent to "rolling a grenade" -- mere threats don't kill anyone.
ExRat () (URL) - 27 June '05 - 11:05
Perhap someone could frag Ward "Fake Indian" Churchill.
iron mike () - 27 June '05 - 11:05
I clearly understand what our problem here is. Conservatives are expecting the same expectation level from liberals as we do ourselves. This is the dilemma. We must reach low, very low in the exectation barrel and we will never, ever be disappointed with those like Chief (not) Churchill. Our expectations will always be met.
Ranter53 () - 27 June '05 - 11:28
ExRat and Ranter53, you both hit it on the head in terms of Churchill's hypocrisy and conservatives expectations of liberals. The former point stands on its own, and to the latter, I think conservatives truly want to maintain the concept of 'the loyal opposition'. I know I do, I think it is part of what makes America work.
However, I am struggling with finding loyalty of any sort in 'the opposition'. Between 9/11 and today American liberalism has devolved into the 'Negative-America'. W. Churchill, Durbin, H. Dean, the Democratic Underground, Michael Moore, MoveOn.org, and a myriad of others both high and low in the liberal/democratic-party hierarchy clearly demonstrate their citizenship in, and patriotic support for, Negative-America on a daily basis.
f15c () - 27 June '05 - 13:00
Again with "Eichmann"...
How little imagination this hater has...
DANEgerus () (URL) - 27 June '05 - 13:37
Is it just me, but does it sound like the individual asking Ward "Fuzzy Bunny Slippers" Churchill that question sound as if he had been sucking on a bong for about the last 6 hours?
N. O'Brain () - 27 June '05 - 19:47
Do we hear any mainstream Democrats denouncing this guy? When David Duke ran he was repudiated by republicans. When the NRA called DEA agents "jack-booted thugs" the same thing happened. Where is the standard for reasonable behavior and discourse set by the left? There is no standard and that should be regarded as an endorsement of Mr. Churchill.
Rich () - 28 June '05 - 05:25
Since Churchill is now advocating the murder of army officers to go along with his repulsive "little Eichmanns" tirade, I believe that nationalists should punish traitor and devil Churchill with a Walter PPK to the head. This would also have the positive effect of warning other traitors about the price of treason. The fifth column of vipers and traitors must be extirpated.
Jim () - 29 June '05 - 11:09
Jim:
Please refrain from advocating murder, at least on my website, however much you may feel it is justified.
jwpaine () - 29 June '05 - 11:18
Something that's gone unmentioned is the fact that there has been virtual silence from the academic community concerning Mr. Churchill. The fact is that he represents the views of a large percentage of the professors teaching our next generation.
www.liberallyspeaking.blogs.com
Robert Kessler - 29 June '05 - 11:25
Churchill is my war hero!
Leroy () - 29 June '05 - 20:02
Perhaps Ward should visit Ft Bragg where he can get some experience with grenades. I find it a real tribute to Americans in general that this "man" is still walking. I find it amazing that his employers can stand upright without a spine.
Steve () - 29 June '05 - 21:39
He don't need no small grenades, he don't need no hand grenades...he's CHURCHILL THE MAN WITH BALLS OF STEEL UNLIKE OTHER PEOPLE!
Leroy () - 29 June '05 - 23:42
What's really sad is I can't tell if Leroy is being serious or sarcastic. The leftist rhetoric has gotten so bad it's beyond parody.
Arnold - 30 June '05 - 11:11
Conscientious Objection
Somehow that has now ended up on the same level as the advocation of violence. ugh
Josh () - 30 June '05 - 11:16
It's good that we have Churchill to show left wing thinking unveiled.
I'm kinda expecting the left to do something to shut him up. With friends like him, who needs...
Mike Slay () - 30 June '05 - 11:33
Jim, I have a quibble with your "PPK to his head" comment. You wouldn't want to use a marginally adequate chambering like 9mm Kurtz (.380ACP) and have Churchill survive, only to talk like Boston's Mayor Menino the rest of his life. Use a .45.
R.B. Phillips () - 30 June '05 - 11:39
Title 18 of the U.S. Code Chapter 115 is titled,
"Treason, Sedition and Subversive Activities."
Title 18 defines "treason" as follows:
Whoever, owing allegiance to the United States, levies war against them or adheres to their enemies, giving them aid and comfort within the United States or elsewhere, is guilty of treason and shall suffer death.
These and other traitors need to be taken out and SHOT!!!
jimgoism () (URL) - 30 June '05 - 18:17
Ah, jimgoism, there's the rub. Does Churchill owe alliance to the United States... and I mean from a legal perspective. Were he a member of the US armed forces or an elected official, I'd say yes... because he'd have taken a an oath pledging that allegiance.
But does a US citizen owe allegiance? I personally think that if you continue to live in the US, you owe it at least some allegiance, but what do our legal-eagle readers say about this?
jwpaine () - 30 June '05 - 18:33
Ward Churchill is a glob of suck-weed pond scum and is certainly certifiable. Frig the fragger! Oh yeah, and Leroy seems to come from the same sewer as Ward.
The Gadfly () - 30 June '05 - 21:11
Jim, the NRA didn't call DEA agents "jackbooted thugs". The NRA President quoted Rep. Dingell (D-Mich) refering to testimony in the '80's before his committee on abuses by BATF agents. Dingell called the BATF agents whose actions were being specifically described, as "jack booted thugs". And frankly, if you read those transcripts, you would not disagree.
Robin Roberts () (URL) - 30 June '05 - 22:44
I don't understand how Churchill and others can compare a Conscientious Objector and a draftee fragging an officer.
I am currently researching the period between the end of WWII and the start of the Korean War. While reading newspapers of the period today, I read the story of a WWII CO that received the Medal of Honor for his actions in saving his comrades. He was not the only one. Being a CO does not mean you go home and let someone else go in your place.
Many COs have served with distinction as medics and in other capacities. They are not cowards, but someone who frags an officer certainly is. There is no comparison.
It seems that most of the COs today just object to stepping up and doing their part. Their only objection is to endangering their candy asses.
A hundred years ago Ward Churchill would have been selling patent medicine off the back of a wagon to the same gullible stooges that he speaks to today. Both he and his fans are blowhards. They would never actually take any kind of action much less actually join the military to frag someone.
John Dunshee () (URL) - 01 July '05 - 01:02
I just sent Chief Churchill an email thank you card. It's the same one I sent "Mad How Disease" Dean. We concervatives don't really have to say a thing if we're wise. Just sit right back and let the party and their ilk self-destruct. Ka-Boom. Maybe in about 30 years or so Chief Churchill will go on national TV and give a nice heart filled fake apology like Hanoi Jane. Of course, that would mean he'd have a movie coming out coincidentally at the same time.
Ranter53 () - 01 July '05 - 13:28
FYI, Churchill has a female co-conspirator, check out
http://faculty.ncwc.edu/jchristensen/
Can you imagine what their children would be like ??????
Carol Macris () - 06 July '05 - 14:08
I actually saw this reported on FNC; was this your doing?
I just wrote an article Timmi Gets Life, Why Not Ward Churchill? on my blog, but I didn't see any trackback link here. I just wanted to thank you for the information.
The Uncooperative Blogger () (URL) - 13 July '05 - 12:46
WorldNetDaily swiped the quote and from PB, then I'd imagine FNC picked it up from WND. I shamed WND into inserting "As reported by the "Pirate Ballerina" blogsite" in their article, but so far, no real linked attribution, nor any apology.
jwpaine () - 13 July '05 - 13:12
Well, I saw video footage on FNC did you make a video?
The Uncooperative Blogger () (URL) - 13 July '05 - 16:38
Nope. I haven't seen the FNC video; if it exists, then they would appear to have an exclusive. In any case, my case is with WorldNetDaily, not FNC.
jwpaine () - 13 July '05 - 22:25
No trackbacks:
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